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'Occupy Augusta,' Interviews Part Two-A. Posted November 28th 2011

These Interviews took place in almost a Month's time. This segment is entitled “Vacationland turns into Wasteland.”

The First Interviews took place at the Homegrown Medical Marijuana Trade-Show-and-Cultural-Bizarre that took place at the Augusta Civic Center in Maine.

E-mail from Roger Leisner - Radio Free Maine


Carolyn Chute, Dr. Dustin Sulak, Crash Berry, the Humble Farmer, the Maine Paparazzi, Dave Wilkinson's newest film, the Maine Civil Liberties Union, belly dancers, rock n' roll bands and Maine Medical Marijuana users, what do they all have in common? They will all be at the Augusta Civic Center this weekend for the first annual Homegrown Maine. Listed below is the schedule for speakers and entertainers on Saturday and Sunday.



Throughout the weekend:

MMCM Member Orientations at the MMCM Table on the Main Floor of the Civic Center




10-11 Barefoot Truth of Bellydance

7-8 Gwizzoes

8-9 Educated Advocates

9-10:30 220s

10:30-12 Cyborg Trio



Emcee: Humble Farmer

9-10:30 Film - Science Vs. Stigma, Directed by Dave Wilkinson

11 -12:15 Dr. Lester Grinspoon via Skype

12:45-1:15 Humble Farmer

2-2:30 - Hempology

3-4 Dr Sulak

4:20-5 Sean Donahue

5-6 Alysia Melnick




10-11 220s?

4-7 220s


Emcee: Crash Barry

10-11 Dave Wilkinson

11-12 Wendy Chapkis

12:30 Humble Farmer

3-4 Chris Dixon

Times to be announced: Carolyn Chute, Harry Brown




9:30 - Tree of Life Caregivers Workshop - Becoming a Caregiver

1:00-2:30 Film: SCIENCE VS. STIGMA with Director Dave Wilkinson

4-5:30 Cannabis Curriculum Hempology

6 - Tree of Life Caregivers Workshop - Cloning

7 - MMCM New Member Orientation


9-10:30 Film: SCIENCE VS. STIGMA with Director Dave Wilkinson

1pm Tree of Life Caregivers Workshop - Cloning

2pm Tree of Life Caregivers Workshop - Becoming a Caregiver

4pm - MMCM Members Annual Meeting

Add to Workshop Listing:

Hempologist John Dvorak will be presenting his Cannabis Curriculum, an effort to motivate students to incorporate the benefits of cannabis hemp as well as the devastating effect its prohibition has on society into their academic endeavors.

New Film Featuring Maine Patients and Dr. Dustin Sulak


Directed by Dave Wilkinson
Produced by Ron Norton and Paul Maguire
Audio and Camera Assistant, Rob Mackenzie
Post-Production Producer: Marilyn Taylor.
Music by Seth Pillsbury, Jim Stewart and Dave Wilkinson


Interview with Paul McCarrier.

Q : “How many people have attended this event so far ?”


A : “ 125 people.”


Q : “Did this cost a lot to do ?”


A : “With all the materials, labor being free, $6,000. We’ve made a lot back as vendors. A company didn’t that sold Vapors didn’t want to be associated with marijuana. A local store in Farmington got lucky as we bought $2,500 worth of Vapors. We’re selling them at cost. We’re not making any money from it. We wanted to do it right. We made shirts and hired a sound guy.” (Paul talking to someone else.) “You don’t have to register anymore. We’re trying to work with the maine Attorneys Generals Office so that Law Enforcement officers aren’t tracking medical marijuana users. We didn’t put any money in Advertising. A lot of people don’t care if your things expired for Dispensaries run by Mobsters.”

Presentation by Maine Hydroponic Supply. 50 Rockland Road Rt.17 Jefferson Maine 04348. Maine Hydro Supply .com. 1-207-390-0857

“Harvest top to bottom. Let the Bottom buds keep growing. Take Clones off of Mother Plant to put it into E-Z Clone. Just for rooting clones. One to Thousands of plants to maturity. ‘Aero (something didn’t catch what he said.) never emerged fully in water. Runs all the time. Air pump oxygenating the water. Pipe releasing air into the water. E-Z clone may have 5-10 days, while without it would take 8 days to 2 weeks. It cuts the time in half. E-Z Clone lateral plants right off the bat. E-Z Clone .com The lights are just for show. E-Z Clone 30 site $310. 60 site $354.99.”

(Note other reporters were also taking notes so I couldn’t ask him to repeat information.)


Overhearing conversation of Dr, Dustin Sulak.

Dustin : “Vitamin D best thing for deficiencies in Health in Winter time.”

Interview with Will Neils.

Q : “Are you satisfied with the success of this?”

A : “Yes. Without a doubt. I’m glad Mainers are here to exercise their newly governed rights. I think more events like this are important culturally. As Mainers begin to also exercise their discipline personally. The medical marijuana is a microcosm of other political issues and situations. Where we do find the Federal government out of step with the will of the people of this State and possible the entire Nation. That’s the thing about this community. When people get involved with the community, it just ends up reinforcing how small the State is. All the time I don’t know if this person knows that person when I introduce them. They laugh because they already know each other. It’s a State’s version of a small town. That way it’s gives us more control as a community.”

Q : “Are you part of working with the Attorney General’s Office, making sure Law Enforcement doesn’t track medical marijuana users?”

A : “I haven’t been involved a lot with the A.G.’s office at this time. A lot of times in this group we have complimentary roles.”

Q : “ What do you think about expanding the eligibility for medical marijuana patients?”

A : “I think it’s extremely important to include Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other…”

At this point a reporter from a local newspaper tries to go into the medical marijuana tent.

Will : “Media is not allowed inside of the tent... I’ve been a political activist for 17 years... All members of the media get equal access. It’s an interesting contrast between the eyes of the State and the clear citizens intent. Education seems to be moving in that direction.”

A vaporizer is being used in the tent. A large sign reads : “Only patients with card or recommendations beyond this point.” Will has experience of getting involved with the community. He kept pushing the Band 220 saying; “They are the best band in Waldo County.”

Interview with Chris Kenoyer. Medical Activist, Online Patients Advocate and Online MMJ News Journalist.


Chris : “This is a vaporizer. The basic principals…Basically a joint, the way they receive P.T.S.D. symptoms or chronic back pain, that alleviate it is the T.H.C. Cannabinoids. 3 things. T.H.C., cannabinoids and cannibina’s, those things kill Cancer. They do kill Cancer. Joints burn the matter itself. Dangers of inhaling chloroform which is part of the plants. Moldy. Molds not good for medical marijuana patients. Instead of burning everything the vaporizer is set at a temperature. Doesn’t taste the burning plant matter. It vaporizes resin away without burning chloroform. That’s why people cough, because they are smoking the chloroform when they don’t use a vaporizer. If you have repertory illnesses, it’s better with a vaporizer. Heat it up to 240 degrees, air goes in to vaporize actual resin in plant. This vaporizer is programmable. Put a pea size amount of marijuana, put stem on, slow easy draw on it. This is a “Happy Vappy.” Vaporizer. Programmable, digital and latest model. Others have one temperature. T.H.C. and cannabinoids burn at lower temperature than plant material. The plant material harmful carcinogens, doesn’t burn. Green going in, brown going out. Comes out brown, inert plant material. I’m a spinal patient.”

At this Point he pulls out a small bottle of brown liquid with an “eye dropper,” and squirts some of it into his mouth.

Chris : “It’s made with 190 proof Ever Clear alcohol. I soak weed for a month. Put in freezer. Alcohol and cold breaks down T.H.C.. 3-4 times a month I shake it up. Alcohol doesn’t freeze. Strain through cheese cloth. Now T.H.C. is infused with alcohol. There is also a faster way using a stove top. It’s not recommended with a gas stove due to the alcohol. This is double XX in a 750 milliliter bottle. Triple XXX 1 ounce and a half of marijuana. Boiled down to make it more potent on a charcoal grill. The T.H.C. and cannabinoids don’t boil off. Alcohol boils off. Medically I’m inoperative. I can’t remember the last day I didn’t hurt. Yes, medical marijuana does help with the muscle spasms with my degenerated disc’s. My top or bottom abdomen muscle will spasm and drop me to the floor. I can be on ground for 5-10 minutes until spasm goes away. 12 years I’ve been an activist as well as a patient.

Will Neils Interview continued.


Will : “Historically this is the first time a medical marijuana tent has been set up in public for vaporizing in a zone with the Augusta police and the management of the facility.

My fertilizer guy is up front. Chicken poop. It’s got Calcium 3-4-3 as is. Thousands of chickens died in a barn fire in Waldo County. Zap Hill is Waldo County sustainable publication.”

At this point Will talks to someone, about someone else, whom got mad about E-mailing back and forth. Will said, “It could be a week or a month before I get back to him because I don’t live with electricity and I wanted to communicate by regular mail.”

Q : “You don’t live with electricity?”

A : “No electricity in my house. I spent my first 10 years with no running water and no electricity.”

Will goes back to talking about the special fertilizer to someone else.

Will : “Burlap sack fertilizer is slightly rich. When it recovered from its bounty, I suspect you would see a commenced reaction. The point is it’s giant everything. Giant butternut squash. It’s just like with Cow poop that has been sitting there for 10-20 years. We put one plant in and a hurricane hit. The plant came back alive.”

Will then talks with a woman about doing an inside winter campout with limited people. He also talks about how Paul McCarrier was on the front page of (a Bangor area newspaper.) three days prior. “We didn’t think marijuana edibles were going to be taxed by a Republican Burgess. We want instead the shift to Department of Health and Human Services from away of the Law Enforcement. So now the public is more educated.”

Hillary Lister Interview


Hillary : “I think it’s pretty great. It’s been a wide mix of people coming in. People are very interested in learning.”

Q : “What’s your view of how lobbyists in the State of Maine have influenced Maine Medical Marijuana?”

A : “They played a pretty strong role in changing the 2009 intent of the citizens initiative act.”

Q : “What changes are those?”

A : “Primary, mandatory registration of patients. Where it was before voluntary registration of patients. Personally, the representative on the task force was supposed to represent Citizens Initiative. Dan Walker- Lobbyist for Pharmaceuticals Researchers and Manufactures of America. He is also an attorney for Northeast patients group. He’s also a waste industries lobbyist. He has his hands in everything right now. He’s the one who sat slightly on the task force, even though he was suppose to speak on behalf of the Initiative itself. He allegedly did not speak up when they were changing core pieces.”

Q : “Are you surprised that the Democratic Party headquarters had no idea about Casella’s involvement in Former Maine Governors Baldacci’s re-election campaign, when I asked them for part one of this series?”

A : “Sounds about right.” (Laughs.) “No.”

Q : “What do you know about Don Meagher?”

A : “Longtime Public Relations guy for Castella since they started in Maine. Not sure if he was onboard during the Bidderford Incinerator issue. But yes, on Old Town’s incinerator issue. Colby College had him for their students to hear on their Environmental studies program. He was talking about recycling and Green energy.”

Q : “Now you said in Part one: “The State Legislation said they should look into the Juniper Ridge Landfill expansion in January.” And yet, at the Black Bear Inn it looks like they , the State Planning Office, Maine Department of Environmental Protection, and Casella are trying to push it through before the start of the next session in January.”

A : “Yeap. Which they already done a couple of years ago as well. This is the time of year they always try to do it, between Thanksgiving and Christmas. That’s when they also enter the University of Maine to purchase, to fiancé the building of a trash-gas pipeline from Old Town to Orono and to purchase the Gas from it. And incidentally, Don Meagher is the Castella Rep who allegedly met with the Maine Department of Environmental Protection to redefine what Maine waste is.”

Q : “You mean the : “If it was recycled or ‘processed,’ in Maine, even though it is out of State trash. The ‘That’s in the State Statue Now.' Quote Darryl Brown of the Maine State Planning Office said in part one of this series.”

A : “Yup. It got into Statue though rule making. Not in any public process. It seems that there may have been private meetings between Don Meager and the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.”

Second Interview with Paul McCarrier

Paul : “So far the events been really successful, we’ve met our goal of having between 500 – 700 people here, with having 600 people here Sunday afternoon. Because of that we think this event is going to being happening next year, and we’ve heard a lot of excitement about the event continuing into the next year. So Venders are happy, people are happy. People are getting educated. Hopefully next year we’ll promote the concert a little bit better, so the people will know it’s also a concert and not just a trade show.

Edward Miller. Senior Vice President for Health promotion and public policy for the American Lung Association “Fighting for air,” in Augusta Maine office, provided written information. Here are excerpts for the American Lung Association National Public Policy Position. Position title : Energy. Date Approved : June 11, 2011.

Policy Principle on Energy

The use of energy is essential to the growth and functioning for the U.S. economy and for the quality of life enjoyed in the United States. However, certain energy practices, fuel sources and technologies place a heavy toll on human health and the environment, impacting the lives of millions of people, including those who are most vulnerable to harm. The American Lung Association believes that protection of lung health and a sound U.S. energy policy are compatible goals that require an emphasis on energy conservation, energy efficiency, and the use of cleaner energy resources, including a transition from coal and oil to cleaner alternatives. Our overarching principles call for the implementation of effective air quality programs and standards, transitioning to a clean energy future, with a commitment to promote environmental justice.

Promoting Effective Air Quality Programs and Standards


To ensure the protection of human health, the American Lung Association supports the rigorous enforcement of air pollution regulations, and the strengthening of air quality standards and abatement requirements.

The American Lung Association believes that all energy production facilities should use state-of –the art pollution control technologies to protect public health and the environment. All facilities should meet the same rigorous standards of environmental performance, including both new and existing facilities.

Focusing on Environmental Justice


The American Lung Association supports the protection of all people from the harm of air pollution, especially those who suffer disproportionate expose from local sources of emissions. The American Lung Association recognizes that, for many reasons, people in those communities also face a greater burden of lung disease, making them even more vulnerable to these pollutants.

The American Lung Association recognizes that many factors have contributed to the disproportionate levels of exposure in these communities, including missing or weak limits on emissions, poor enforcement of existing regulations, inadequate monitoring of pollutants and limited scientific research. The American Lung Association supports the formulation, execution and enforcement of health and environmental laws and policies to address these factors, clean up contributing sources and reduce such exposures.

The American Lung Association supports regular, thorough assessments of the impacts to nearby communities from sources of dangerous air pollutants, including highways, industrial boilers, power plants and other sources of air pollution. The American Lung Association supports the aggressive targeting of these sources for cleanup. The American Lung Association will work to reduce the disproportionate health burdens borne by economically disadvantaged and politically disenfranchised communities.

Policy Principle on the Electricity Sector


The production of electricity in the United States generates a significant share of the nation’s air pollution, threatening the health and lives of millions of people, including those who are most vulnerable to harm. Coal-fired power plants , in particular, pose a significant threat to air quality and human health. The American Lung Association supports strict enforcement of power plant air pollution regulations to ensure continuous compliance and the strengthening of abatement requirements to ensure the protection of human health. The American Lung Association supports public policies to minimize the human health particularly lung health, impacts associated with the production of electricity form fuel extraction to electricity delivery and disposal of wastes. No community should continue to bear the burden of air pollution levels that harm public health.

Energy Efficiency and Customer-Sited Energy Resources

The American Lung Association supports programs and policies to significantly reduce demand for energy by increasing the efficiency of U.S. homes and businesses, strengthening appliance standards, and reducing the energy consumption of consumer products. The American Lung Association supports programs and policies to encourage consumers and utility companies to expand investment in energy efficiency and energy conservation measures to reduce air pollution emissions, to reduce household energy expenses, and to stimulate new economic opportunities and job creation. The American Lung Association supports programs and policies to encourage energy efficient design and construction of residential. Commercial and industrial buildings while protecting indoor air quality. The American Lung Association supports programs and policies to encourage the development, deployment and integration of clean, non-combustion alternative technologies in the residential, commercial and industrial sectors. The American Lung Association particularly supports the promotion of technologies that provide energy from non-combustion sources located onsite, such as rooftop solar and ground source heat pumps.

Biomass Combustion for Electricity

The American Lung Association does not support biomass combustion for electricity production, a category that includes wood, wood products, agricultural resides or forest wastes and potentially highly toxic feedstocks, such as construction and demolition waste. If biomass is combusted, state-of-the-art pollution controls must be required.

Electricity from Waste

The American Lung Association does not support incineration of municipal solid waste or other waste for electricity production. The American Lung Association supports programs and policies to reduce the health and environmental impacts associated with refuse disposal by: first, reducing the use of materials in production, packaging and purchasing; second, reusing materials whenever possible; and third, recycling or composting as much of the remainder as possible. The American Lung Association urges the use of safe non-combustion alternatives to dispose of all remaining waste. If waste materials are combusted, state-of-the-art pollution controls must be required. The American Lung Association supports the safe control of emissions from landfills and composting facilities, and recommends that only clean vehicles, equipment and vessels be used transporting and managing solid waste materials.

Emissions Trading

Emissions trading and averaging can create disproportionate impacts on local communities. The American Lung Association favors a transition to enforceable pollution reduction obligations for all facilities.

Policy Principle on the Residential, Commercial and Industrial Sectors.

The combustion of fossil fuels and biomass in the residential, commercial and industrial sectors in the United States generates a significant share of the nation’s air pollution, threatening the health and lives of millions of people, including those who are most vulnerable to harm. The American Lung Association supports public policies to minimize the human health, particularly lung health, impacts associated with the production of heat for residential, commercial and industrial use, including impacts from fuel extraction to the disposal of wastes. The American Lung Association supports regulation and enforcement to protect the air, water and other environmental resources during the exploration, extraction, production and transmission of natural gas, propane and oil. The American Lung Association supports programs and policies to assist communities and individuals to reduce their exposure to indoor and outdoor air pollutants and to reduce their energy use.

Industrial Fuel Combustion

The American Lung Association supports public policies requiring the installation and operation of state-of-the-art air pollution control systems at new and existing industrial facilities, such as pulp mills, steel mills and manufacturing facilities. The American Lung Association strongly supports policies that encourage a transition from coal, oil and biomass use in the industrial sector to cleaner alternatives. If conversion in the short-term is not possible, the American Lung Association supports public policies that require the installation of state-of-the-art air pollution control systems, and on-going measures to ensure strong enforcement and continuous compliance.

Second E-mail from Roger Leisner – Radio Free Maine

Occupy Augusta is 30 days old.

Occupy Augusta is located in the middle of Capitol Park, directly across from the State Capitol building, in Augusta, Maine.

A tipi, donated by raging grannie Jane Sanford of Belfast, was raised this past week under the direction of a Penobscot.

Visitors have included a busload of tourists from Taiwan, an archeologist from Australia, students from Denmark (the country not the Maine town), a candidate for the Augusta City Council, a candidate for the US Senate and lots of supporters from all over Maine. Have you visited? Please feel free to drop by and visit any day.

And if you feel the urge, come join us and camp out at Occupy Augusta.

Photos from the Occupy Augusta have been posted on

Look for Roger Leisner-The Maine Paparazzi and go to this gallery.

27 galleries with 1379 photos



Natural Resources Council of Maine. Location : Augusta Maine


Q : “So on the record, the Natural Resources Council has no comment…”


A : “Correct.”


Q : “On what’s taking place with the incineration issue, and with what the people at the ‘Occupy Augusta’…”


A : “Yes.”


Q : “Are talking about…”


A : “That’s correct.”


Q : “So there’s no comment on…”


A : “No comment.”


Q : “Casella Waste Management and the out of State Const…”


A : “No.”


Q : “O.K.. Sounds good. Well I got that on record and I want to thank you very much. Oh, and what was your name again?”


A : “Nick Bennett.”


Q : “And how do you spell your last name?”


A : “ B-e-n-n-e-t-t.”


Q : “And you are, what division?”


A : “Staff Scientist.”


Doug Papa is the owner of
Music Trade Magazine .com
and a contributing writer for
ArchEnemys online magazine.

Occupy Augusta Interviews Part 2B Posted November 28th, 2011

Interview with Nancy Oden - Clean Earth Farms.


(Note: Tape recorder was not turned on at start of interview.  The interview cuts into an ongoing sentence in progress.)


Nancy : “…That there’s a warning in the front of the book that the Maine Fish and Wildlife Department hands out to fishermen with all the rules on fish.  It’s basically, ‘Don’t eat the fish in Maine’s Lakes, Rivers, Streams,’ and so on.  Pregnant women not at all.  Adult men, maybe once a week.  Certain species that shouldn’t be eaten at all.  And because they have Dioxins and other dangerous chemicals in them.  And incinerators, when they burn, regular garbage, -everybody throws things in the garbage.  Most people still don’t recycle.  Disgusting as that sounds, it hasn’t been made easy enough for them yet.  When you burn plastics in particular, that synthesizes Dioxins being released and they tell you that: ‘Oh, we capture the ash before it goes out the Chimney.’  Yes, they capture the visible part of the ash.  But minute particles get through.  Of course they do.  And they float out onto the land.  Onto Farmland.  People breath them in.  And those minute particles contain not only Dioxins, but, heavy metals which never go away.  Like lead and Arsenic, and Mercury.  Such that all of this over the years has landed in our Lakes.  Not just incinerators in Maine, but incinerators in the Mid-West.  Which have really tall chimneys.  So that it blows into the atmospheric winds and ends up here, because we are called ‘the tailpipe.’  A lot of it ends up here.  So our Lakes, Rivers, Streams and Coastal waters have Dioxins, heavy metals, pesticides and all sorts of things that are released by burning people’s garbage.  And that is the worst of it of course.  There’s ash that sometimes blows.  The chimney blows and the ‘fly ash,’ which is the stuff at the top, that’s really the toxic stuff, blows our all over the communities that they are in.  And in Bidderford, for example, that huge incinerator that’s been there…about little over 20 years now, has done that several times.  And it blows all over the people, all over their property, the animals, the pets, the children, the people, they breath it in.  They can’t help it.  You have to breath.  So they are toxic. They should all be shut down.

      What we need to do is compost all of the putrescent-able, which means it would rot, waste, which means food waste and yard waste, and grass clippings and leaves and chopped up branches and so on.  That needs to be composted.  Which it would then be turned back to earth.  And if people would not use pesticides including Agra-businesses, if they wouldn’t use pesticides it would actually be clean.  But as it is, it’s better than any kind of compost that you’re going to buy.  And that is the best stuff to grow food in.  And what we need to do by the way, is to start growing our own food, because it’s getting really expensive and scarce.  So that’s one thing we got to do.  Take all the putrescent-able waste out of the garbage stream number one.  People can do that at home.  And why we don’t make that legal, I don’t know because other States have managed to do this.  And then we need to re-use of course.  Glass bottles for example, beautiful jars with tops on them, are frequently tossed out.  This is crazy.  And then people buy containers for food.  They buy these stupid plastic containers, to put food in.  No, no.  You just use peanut butter jars, or whatever has a nice straight jar.  And I freeze food in them, just leave an inch at the top.  I mean the point is to just reuse whatever we can.  And then when you’ve reused everything that is reusable, including by the way, houses should be taken down.  They should be taken apart the way they were built, so another house can be built from it.  Then you recycle everything that’s left, including leftover wood.  Although treated wood had to be sent to a special landfill.  It shouldn’t even be legal, but regular wood people throw out.  A lot of us burn wood for heat.  For example, I’m standing next to my woodstove here.  Which I’m just keeping smoldering today because it’s not cold.  And that could be at our transfer station for us to take as we wish.  People are doled out everything.  Everything has a use.  Except certain plastics.  And when they say they recycle plastics.  And when they say they recycle plastic, that’s not a good thing, because it takes a lot of toxic chemicals, just as it is, just to create the plastics out of oil.  It takes a lot of toxic chemicals to break them down and reuse them.  So we need to get away from oil and all its products.  Because we are going to run out of oil and because it’s a fossil fuel, which is heating up the Earth.

      So all of which is to say, the incinerators should be shut down tomorrow.  We should compost everything compostable.  Reuse everything possible.  And then recycle everything possible and that would leave us with less than 2% of the waste.  So that’s what should happen, instead of incineration.”


Q :  “Nancy, how do you feel about the new addition to the State Statue that allows Corporations to bring in out of State construction debris; and as long as pieces of it are recycled the rest of it can be incinerated in Old Town?  Which allegedly is an incinerator not built for construction waste but actually came from Athens (Maine,) and was built for wood pellets?”


A :  “O.K. let me ask you this: What magazine did you say you were?”


Q :  “ArchEnemys online magazine.”


A :  “It’s what?”


Q :  “ArchEnemys online magazine.”


A : “ArchEnemys online…What’s your website?”


Q : “That is the website.  I’m the owner of Music Trade Magazine .com”


A :  “Music Trade…”


Q :  “And I write for ArchEnemys online magazine as well.”


A :  “Wait, I’m sorry.  I’m trying to, I…”


Q :  “It’s a website that people actually have to pay $10 to read the material on it.”


A :  “Oh…Music Trade .com ?”


Q :  “My website is Music Trade Magazine .com.”


A :  “Oh.”


Q :  “But the website I write for is ArchEnemys online magazine.”


A : “Oh, O.K..  so your this Music Trade Magazine .com.”


Q :  “Correct.”


A :  “O.K. Cool.  I just wanted to know. And your name?  I didn’t get it.”


Q :  “ Douglas Papa.  I’m, the guy who used to publish Big Time Music Trade Magazine.  Do you remember when you ran for Governor, a guy came in with a newspaper and gave you a really cheap advertisement?”


A :  “Yes I do remember.”


Q :  “That’s me.”


A :  “Yeah, O.k. o.k..Well, now as out of State waste, the only thing…”


Q :  “Out of State construction debris…”


A :  “Yes well…”


Q :   “Being burned and incinerated at something actually designed for wood pellets.”


A :  “Yes, well the whole concept of out of State Waste coming to Maine, needs to be challenged.  That includes, so called ‘construction debris.’  Which isn’t just that.  Construction debris that consists of whatever they throw into the truck, before it gets into Maine.  That means barrels of hazardous chemical waste.  Anything that they want to get rid of.  And they dump it here or burn it.  So it’s just another incinerator issue.  But the whole issue of out of State waste is very important.  They’re filling up Maine’s woods and waters with our of State filth.  And this is because the Federal Trade Commission has ruled there is Federal Law on commerce that:  “You cannot block an article of commerce, so long as you where as a State you use it as an article of Commerce yourself.’  So if the State of Maine composted, reused and recycled to the ‘inth degree,’ possible, then we could legally stop all out of State waste coming into here, because we would not be treating it as an article of commerce.  We would be reusing everything and that would mean, that we could block virtually everything from coming into here.  So, one thing leads to another.  My idea is to simply pass a Maine law that says ‘no more trucks are allowed in here,’ and send our State Troopers to the border, to stop out of State garbage trucks and defy the Federal Government.  Now that’s what I would do if I were Governor.”


Q :  “O.K.. And how do you feel about the, about the, the, the State Planning Office and (State,) Department of Environmental Protection that actually allowed the change in State Statue, that now allows the out of State construction debris, now to be considered: ‘processed in Maine,’ and then considered as in State material, because, it was ‘processed in Maine.’  I.E. the recycled materials being taken out…That was just passed recently.”


A :  “Right.  When the garbage and construction debris come into Maine, they burn it at one of the incinerators, releasing a lot of toxic’s.  So it becomes ashes, and then they say: ‘It is Maine waste.’  This is ludicrous!  It’s the big lie.  Nobody believes it.  The question is: ‘How do we fight it?’  And a lot of people, including Hillary Lister and others, over by the Juniper Ridge Landfill, and I over here at Washington County.  We have killed a couple of huge dump proposals over here.  WE fight this stuff all the time and it’s…It’s the Federal Law that says: ‘If an Article of Garbage is an Article of Commerce…’ that lets them get away with this.  It’s not even logical.  You know?  It’s…No one would believe these things if you told them these things in a different context.  If they didn’t know ‘who it was,’ people would just laugh and say: ‘well that’s really stupid.’  And of course it is.  But anything for money.  Follow the money.  If there’s money to be made, we can expect lies and corruption.  That’s what this is about.”


Q :  “And I was just over at the Natural Resource Councils of Maine.  Because during part one of the interviews, Will Neils, I couldn’t print it because I couldn’t print it, because I couldn’t confirm it.  He actually stated: ‘Don’t ask the Natural Resource Councils of Maine about this issue, ‘cuz they wouldn’t have anything to say about it.’  I was just over there, and as a matter of fact, their Scientific Advisor said that they had, ‘no comment,’ about the issue.  Are you surprised about that?”         


 A :  “No.  Because their parent organization, which is the National Wildlife Federation, takes money from… What is that big garbage Corporation that’s down in Norridgewock?”


Q :  “I’m not even sure to be honest with you.”


A :  “I’ll tell you who it is, I just remembered it.  It’s Waste Management Incorporated.  Which is a world-wide dealer in hazardous and Nuclear chemical waste and garbage.  And they have been dumping in and expanding their huge dump in Norridgewock Maine.  Which is now, back  of Skowhegan, for years.  And some of us try to help them too, when they were fighting it through D.E.P.  and so on.  But no I’m not in the least bit surprised.  A bunch of us in fact backed Brownie Carson, who was the head of N.R.C.M. until recently, against the wall on this, saying: ‘You got to support us on this.’  People think they are an environmental organization, but that’s a joke.  They are one of these 501-C-3’s non-profits, that looks for where an issue might be that might get their money, so they can pay their salaries.  Those of us who don’t get a dime, Ever!  For flinging ourselves out here, like all the people you’ve been talking to Hillary, me and so on.  We do this because it’s the right thing to do.  Do don’t do it because we get paid to do it.  Nobody pays us.  And that frees us from being behold ant to anybody.  O.K.?  That’s why I never wanted to become one of these 501-C-3’s, that are always looking for the money.  And they are answerable to the Federal Internal Revenue Service; who watches that they don’t do any serious political activity.  They can only do so much lobbying.  So they are very cautious and they self-censor all the time.  But, the whole point about the garbage issue, which is a huge issue, is that their National Wildlife federation, which is the Parent Organization, accepts hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from Waste Management Incorporated.  The World’s largest dealer in hazardous chemical, nuclear waste and regular garbage.  Trucks come into Norridgewock day and night from all over the Country.  And there’s nobody standing at the border with a Geiger Counter.  O.K.?  We don’t know what’s in those trucks.  Why is a truck from Colorado driving to Maine and dumping into this dump there?  We don’t know and we’re not allowed to know.  Nor can we demand that someone stand at the border with a Geiger Counter and check every single truck that comes in here.  We don’t know.  They should actually open up those trucks and test them for radiation.  They should check them for hazardous chemical waste.  And of course they should be stopped any way.  No out of State garbage should be coming in here, but that’s another battle.  So yeah, I’m not surprised at all.  I’ve know that for…let’s see…25 years now.”


Q :  “Wow!”


A :  “That they are a…well I don’t want to call bad names to the individuals.  They occasionally have a person who works there, who cares.  But they don’t always last.  They’ve had people who left there after learning all about environmental rules and regulations and knowing all the activists in the State.  They leave and they go to work for the electric power companies, and the Paper companies and the various selfish polluting Corporations , because now they are the ‘experts.’  This happens with Audubon too.  So they’re never 501-C-3,  ‘Let’s be cautious, and not to disrupt, so new can get money!’  There were posters in Hearing rooms in Augusta.  In the Representatives and Senators hearing rooms in various Committees, beautiful posters and birds and ‘blah, blah, blah,’ and around the edges, it says: ‘A working partnership, Audubon and…’  Which Paper company was it?  It wasn’t St. Croix Paper Company.  It was one of them that has morphed into another one now.  But the Paper Company and Audubon working together.  They get a lot of money from them.  And of course the Paper Mills are amongst one of the filthiest manufacturing outfits in the World.  There are still Paper Mills dumping Chlorine and Chlorine Dioxide and Chlorine elements of Chlorine into our Rivers, which is Dioxin.  It’s Dioxin.  Dioxin is in the fish.  There’s Dioxin in the Lobsters.  Which the Lobster Council fights like hell to keep out of the public eye.  The Maine Health Service in Augusta, will not make a big deal.  They will not tell people, unless you call them and ask them directly.  Then they ‘Hem and Haw.”  But they issued a warning several years ago: ‘Nobody ever.  Nobody should ever eat the green stuff, that’s in the Lobster.’  Which is kind of like the Liver.  It’s called ‘Tomalley.’  A lot of people like it.  A lot of people eat it.  I have eaten it in years past.  But, now I know too much about Lobster and feeding under the caged Salmon pens of their feces and urine.  I don’t eat Lobster anymore either.  I never ate it that much. (Laughs.)  But I live right here.  I can walk about 200 feet and buy Lobster from the dealer, where the boats are.  But I don’t because in that Tomalley is Dioxin.  Because it’s here, in the Coastal waters and that comes from the Paper Mill.  And now it’s just a Pulp Mill…Owned by the Chinese, up in Baileyville in Washington County.  All they do is chop down the Maine woods and the nearby New Brunswick wood, and chop it up into pulp and they use Chlorine based chemicals in the process to bleach it, and then ship it out of the Port of East Port to China.  So, that’s what’s happening to our woods.

       You see all these issues are inter-related.  So the chemicals are in the Coastal Water.  The Lobster fishermen are finding Lobsters with shell diseases that look awful.  So they can’t sell them.  They’re not sellable.  And the Salmon Industry, which is right across in Canada.  You know you can see them.  Not from Jones Port, where I am, but farther north in Washington County.  You can see them.  They’re owned by Cooke Aquaculture of New Brunswick.  Which you can see their pens right across and because they tend Salmon.  Caged Salmon can’t escape the little predators that attach themselves, and suck on them.  They are called ‘Sea Lice’.  If they were free, they could dive deep to cold water and the ‘Sea Lice,’ would fall off and die.  But they can’t, so this Cooke Aquaculture tosses pesticide  right onto the open waters of the pens, that’s Cypermethrin.  And it’s one of those pyrethroids.  It’s very toxic.  And Lobster fishermen, because it kills insect like creatures, which these Sea Lice are as are Lobsters.  So it is affecting…they are finding dead Lobsters in their traps.  These Lobster fishermen in New Brunswick and also here in Maine.  Although you won’t hear about it, because the Lobster fishermen do not want bad publicity about the ‘car wreck,’ which I totally understand.  But this is the truth.  This is what’s happening.  It’s like the fishermen in the Connecticut and Long Island sound.  Which is huge, Long Island sound.  They sued the City of New York used all Cypermethrins and other pesticides to kill mosquitoes, because of the West Nile Virus.  Which is usually no more worst than a cold.  And it’s a big scam for the Chemical Companies.  Anyways, all these pesticides ran into Long Island Sound and killed the Lobster fishery.  Killed it.  All these Lobsters are dead.  So they settled.  The City of new York settled a couple of years ago with the Lobster fishermen.  And many, many, millions and Millions of Dollars.  All these fishermen’s livelihoods were dead.  So I mean, it’s just the whole Chemical Industry is responsible of the death of millions of creatures, including people, every year. 

       So it’s all part of the same thing.  The so called ‘construction debris,’ which is anything they want to get rid of.  Everything and anything.  Including old pesticides and toxic chemicals.  It doesn’t matter, they don’t care.  That comes into Maine, gets burned, ashes get dumped here, debris get dumped here or burned in Maine.  It’s all part of the Corporate, ‘uncaring what they are doing to the Earth.’  It’s almost as if the Corporate heads didn’t think they lived on the same Earth, as the rest of us.  But they too will pay the price.  We all are and will.”


Q :  “In part one of my interviews too, I also went to the Governor of Maine’s Press Secretary’s Office.  I asked if they had any comment on the public meeting that took place at ‘the Black Bear Inn’ in Orono, with the State’s Department of Environmental Protection, the State Planning Office, a Representative from Casella Waste Management and the Public.  They had, ‘no comment,’ about that.  Are you surprised about that?”


A :  “Casella, whose headquartered in , I believe, New Hampshire.  He was garbage trucks and contracts all through New England and New York.  I was not at that meeting.”


Q :  “Are you surprised that the Governor’s Press Secretary, had no comment about it, at all?  Although that there’s some Agencies that were involved with that?”


A :  “No, I’m not.  I don’t think the Governor is well versed on this subject.  I really don’t.  And I don’t think he really…the Governor is a City guy.  O.K.?  City people tend not to know very much about environmental matters, because it doesn’t…they don’t see it as much as those of us out here in rural areas and small towns.  We’re the ones who get dumped on with the garbage from the Cities and we know the effects on the fisheries and the wildlife and the woods.  So, I honestly don’t think he’s knowledgeable on the subject.  Just…I don’t know what he could say.  What could he say?  He would probably back the head.

       Oh, by the way, the head of the (Maine) D.E.P. that was proposed to him…you know for a guy who gets to be governor who hasn’t been in politics of Augusta, they don’t know these people.   But, Pattie Aho.  Patricia Aho, who is the Commissioner, of the (Maine) Department of Environmental Protection, appointed by him, after the first one he appointed there was some conflict of interest.  She was for years, an attack Lawyer for…I’m trying to remember the name of the Portland Law Firm she was with.  Anyway, she was an attack Lawyer against activists and for the dumps.  That’s what she did.  For years.  So she gets appointed to head up the (Maine,) Department of Environmental Protection.  Which again, is another thing that’s extremely ludicrous."



Q :  “I don’t mean to cut you off.  Did you say she was actually a Lawyer for the Dumps?”


A :  “She was a, yes.  She was a Lawyer for the Law Firm…I can’t think of it.  It’s on the Web.  You can look her up.  She was a Lawyer for years for this Portland Law Firm, that was the legal counsel and fought us activists, on dump sites.  That’s what she did.  For years.  I ought to know.  22 years ago she was here in Washington County on the wrong side of a Dump fight, which I lead for three years.  With a dump that was proposed for Township 30.  Way out in the woods.  They thought we were stupid and wouldn’t understand what it was, and what they wanted to do.  And behind it all were the guys from New Jersey.  O.K.?  That’s who the company really was.  They had a couple of ‘stooges,’ from Maine who were their front men.  But, she was in there against us, against the people of Washington County fighting.  She wasn’t the only one.  There was a whole bunch of Lawyers, that the bad guys had.  But she was one of them.  And there she is!  (Maine,) Department of Environmental Protection Head.  And the last Head of the (Maine,) D.E.P. was another one from that same Law Firm.  A guy I can’t remember.”


Q :  “Was that Darryl Brown, whose now head of the State Planning Office?”


A :  “No.  No.  No.  This guy I think has left.  But any way, the Head of the (Maine,) D.E.P. was an attack dog Lawyer working for Dumpers and Garbage Dumpers before she got appointed to head up the (Maine’s) Department of Environmental Protection.  You can look up on the website.  Just look her up on your  And look up D.E.P. and look her up, you know, and you can get the name of the Law Firm, which I can’t remember.  Because they are so bad.  I’ve put it out of my head. (Laughs.)  So, I’m going to look at your website and see what you’re doing.”


Q :  “Well, it’s a paid membership website.  I can actually…I can try to get some money up and mail you a copy of the interviews.  Which has Paul McCarrier, Hillary Lister, Charlie Webster of the Maine Republican Party.  He pretty much said, he had ‘no idea,’ about…”


A :  “No, they don’t know.”


Q :  “About the Casella Waste, or the Lobby Firms.  I tried to get a Statement for Preti and Flaherty and also Pierce Atwood, who…”


A :  “That’s it!  Pierce Atwood!  That’s it!  Pierce Atwood is who Pattie Aho worked for.  And the last (Maine,) D.E.P. Commissioner also under Baldacci.  He was also from Pierce Atwood.  They support these big Corporate garbage guys and other evil…and whoever wants them to support them.  I suppose.  But it’s Ludicrous!  That the Head of (Maine,) D.E.P. is an attack dog Lawyer for Dumpers and polluters.  And, it just… we have a turned upside down World these days.  And Charlie Webster, I don’t know what he’d know about it.  Because he’s probably another City guy.  And this is not something that’s on many people’s radar: ‘garbage.’  They just want to see it go away.”


Q :  “Right.  Well, I did go to a Website that Hillary Lister referred me to, called ‘Follow the money.’  I guess Casella made HUGE! Contributions to both Republican and Democratic Parties…”


A : “Yup.”


Q :  “And both those Party Spokes people had no idea about Casella.”


A :  “Yes, I know.  I know.  It’s very corrupt.  And it involves also the Guys from New Jersey.  It involves them, because that’s who was behind the big dump proposal for Township 30, that we fought back 20 years ago.  We beat them out of here.  They spent 3 ½  Million dollars and $75,000 all collected from the people of Washington County and we kept them out of here.  But it was a trouble for 3 whole entire years of my life!  About 3.  24 hours a day.  It was difficult. So, us citizens can’t do this kind of thing all the time.  And there are only a few of us willing to spend our lives fighting the bad guys.  Because other people have families.  They have jobs.  Whatever reason you know.  They have people to take care of.  And it’s, once you become a serious activist and you know a certain amount of stuff, it becomes a responsibility.  To let other people know what you know and to warn them about this.  And also to continue to act, because if you don’t, there is very likely that, there are a few to know people willing to take the price.  So that’s why those of us who are out here and have been for years, find it very difficult to back off.  Because, people depend on us to keep fighting.  Because we know.  We know the lies and we know the facts.  And we know the bad guys and who they are.  I know, almost 25 years now, who are the good guys and who are the bad guys are in the State of Maine. 

       It’s kind of all consuming, because there is so much that’s wrong.  And so much that is happening to poison our air and water, our children, our wildlife, our fisheries, and destroying the woods, the Rivers and the Lakes and the Streams.  They’re destroying the very resources that we need to live.  That’s why it’s so urgent that those of us that can stay out here and write, and speak and talk and so on, however we can.  To get the word out to people: ‘Hey! We need everybody’s help here.’  And people don’t know what they can do.  Well there are all sorts of things one can demand that they do.  The thing is that people agree.  For example, the pesticides here.  Sprayed all over here, over all around us and in Coastal Waters and everything.  

I.e. : so called Wild Blueberry growers.  Those blueberries are not wild.  They burn them.  They spray them.  They take the rocks off.  They are no more ‘wild,’ than a sprayed strawberry field, for one thing.  So what people hate is the pesticides.  They know the reason people in Washington and Hancock and Waldo Counties have large amounts of Cancer is because, of the Poisons that are sprayed ‘willy-nilly,’ practically every year.  And we know that and people hate them.  But they don’t know what they can do.  Now I’ve tried Petitions and have ruled petitions in front of the Pesticide Control Board.  Which every member of the Pesticide Control Board, there about a dozen of them, they are appointed by the Governor.  And they all have connections to the Chemical Industry.  Including the University.  And they have a small staff which ‘kowtows,’ to them, because they can get fire them at any time.  The only reason they exist, is to let the Chemical companies come in and say: “ O.K.. We now need to test this poison and that poison.’  And they say: ‘Yes.’  They never say, ‘no,’ to any pesticide.  Even those that have been banned by other countries, and other parts of the World and Canada.  They had never banned one.  And so, that’s one whole area of expertise that I’ve worked on and still am for about 30 years on that one.  It’s a matter of trying to get other regular people to speak out and show up at hearings and express their anger and discontent at these very things.  Including the garbage issue.  If we could get say… let’s just say, 500 people, to a hearing, at the meeting for example you were talking about, that would carry some weight.

    Now we have, we activists have truth, logic, and science and credibility on our side, because we have to be careful what we say.  We have to be able to back it up, and I always make sure I don’t make statements that I can’t back up with Science and Logic.  And all the Industry has to do is say: ‘Oh! Ha, Ha!  That’s not true and they should stop being so emotional!’  Because a lot of us are women and they like to say that about women: ‘Oh, don’t be so emotional!’  We need science based.  And here we had just spoken, given scientific references and scientific papers and statics and all that.  And they simply just go on about their business.  Now this leads some people to just say: ‘Oh it’s no use.’  But if you know a certain amount of information, and you know people are going to be hemmed, you have a responsibility and an obligation to carry on.  And that’s why some of us activists have very little else in our lives, but fighting for a cleaner and better World.  We simply have to, because, we know too much to just keep it to ourselves and back off and do nothing.  We can’t do nothing.  So it’s all tied in together.  The garbage, the pesticides, the spraying of the agricultural crops that hurt the people living in the wide range area, the poisoning of Maine’s Water, so that fishermen have to be warned: ‘Don’t eat the fish that you catch.’  That the public which should be warned, but it was only issued in a small release which they won’t tell the public.  We released it.  That there is so much Dioxin in the Tomalley of Lobsters bodies, that no one should ever eat a spoonful of Tomalley.  We put posters all over the State,  a group of us years ago, which fairly promptly got torn down.  Perhaps by Lobster fishermen, I don’t know.  But, you know, people want to know what they can do.  This is the crux of the matter.  Here we have the ‘Occupy Wall-Street’ movement /‘Occupy the World,’ movement and they are expressing their anger.  And they are saying, ‘this should happen, and this and this and this.’ And I agree.  And it’s true!  But the question of all time is:  “Now that we have these wonderful ideas and we know what should happen…How do we make it happen?’  This is the key.  And you cannot make much of anything happen unless you have a strong, large base of the regular people.  So that’s why we need to continue with our educational efforts to inform the populace, ‘What is the truth and what are the steps you can take.’  For example to avoid pesticides yourself.  How can you grow your own organic food?  Which is a particular issue of mine. 

      I’m an Organic grower and I have written a lot of articles on it.  I look for local papers from, at people growing their own food so they don’t have to eat the genetically modified, which is full of toxins and pesticide industrial food.  It’s all part of the same thing.  The chemical companies poisoning the Earth.  The garbage Companies burning the Chemicals and spewing it all over the air and our land, farmland, we’re breathing it.  Into the waters.  Into the fisheries, which are nearly dead.  Lobsters are about the only thing that there is anymore.  The ground fisheries in New England are dead, pretty much.  And inland fisheries, that we’re not suppose to eat the fish.  Now how are we going to sustain ourselves?  If our gardens are poisoned and also another thing…the sewage which contains industrial sewage.  Casella has a facility in Unity Maine, that’s called some idiot environmental name.  I forget what it is, but you can…When you drive down Route 9 near Unity, there’s this whole section of Highway where you can barley breath.  They had to buy out nearby houses.  People couldn’t stand it.  Where they bring in real sewage.  Genuine sewage from the Cities.  All over New England and as far as probably New York.  New York sends its Garbage to about ten States.  And they compost it there until it doesn’t smell anymore.  In certain sections, it of course it always smells.  They are always bringing new sewage.  With all kinds of Viruses and Bacteria and toxins in it.  So what they do then, they practically give it away.  They may actually give it away, to outfits that sell it as compost for people’s gardens.  Now the D.E.P. allows this by telling the guys who get it and who sell it, they say:  ‘Well, you can only sell this if you tell people that it’s from sewage.’  But they don’t tell them.  I found this out because I’ve had people call me and say: ‘What is this stuff anyway?  My vegetables are sure growing good.’  I say: ‘ Yes they will.  It’s human poop.  But it’s also many, many viruses and toxins and Industrial Wastes, Heavy Metals, Dioxins, all sorts of things you don’t want to be eating.  So please never use it for your food gardening.  If you use it for your flower garden, please know that stuff will soak into your soil.  And just don’t use it.  There are people who sell regular top soil and if you want to buy soil, that’s what you should buy.  And make sure you ask them, flat out, in their eyes, whether it contains sewage.’

       So it’s part of the same thing.  It’s all that they are trying to make money and at the same time poisoning us, by getting rid of the left over’s from the Chemical Industry.  Which includes the treated wood.  It’s one big huge polluted, disgusting mess.  And the left over’s from Industry, they wash them, these Chemical Industries, they wash right into the Rivers.  So it all ends up in the Ocean.  Whales in the Hudson Bay, Way up North in Canada, near the Arctic Circle are full of Dioxin dying of Cancer.”


Q :  “Now one Microbe of…I used to work for MassPIRG, (Massachusetts Public Interest Research Group.)  I should know this one.  One Micron of Dioxin.  How much Water does that actually pollute?  Isn’t it like thousands of gallons of water or something like that?”


A :  “I don’t know.”


Q :  “O.K..”


A :  “I don’t know, but I know one Molecule of Dioxin, if you ingest it in water or food, which we all do now.  Can’t avoid it.  Or from your mother’s body while you’re in utero.  One molecule, and we’ve all got way more than that in us, it is an endocrine disruptor, Dioxin is.  Along with Lead, and lots of other chemicals.  But Dioxin, certain dioxins can live for 10,20 or 50 years.  But once in the body, it bounces around and are switching cells off and on.  It can be an endocrine disruptor.  Endocrines of course are like Estrogens and testosterones.  What it does, these endocrine disruptors, mostly imitate estrogen.  Endocrine means ‘hormonal.’  It disrupts the sexuality of babies in utero.  So that now it imitates estrogen.  So now, we have boy babies being born who have tiny Penises, and some are being born with holes in their penises.  So that urine dribbles our.  You don’t hear about this, because parents almost immediately take them to the hospital to get it sown up.  Some baby boy’s have tiny penises , such that they are being mistaken for females.  So you see, the confused sexuality that there’s a lot of today.  It’s not like a fault.  You know what I mean?  It’s not saying they choose this.  No. No.  It is a growing phenomenon, because of the nature of the chemicals they are being exposed to in their mother’s womb.  And for females, when they are exposed to too much estrogen in utero, can and does lead to endometriosis.  Which is when tissue from the uterus, scar’s itself around in the abdominal cavity, attaching itself here and there.  So when the female gets older and she starts menstruating, the tissue that is scattered all around acts just like the uterus and it slows and bleeds.  And it grows and they are attached to various other parts in the abdomen.  So it can lead to infertility as a very painful every month.  Also surgery doesn’t

necessarily get rid of it all, doesn’t help.  This too is becoming much more common.  Almost a pandemic.”


Q :  “Right.  I dated a girl from East Germany who had that.  And as well all know, East Germany was heavily polluted during the Soviet Era.”


A :  “Exactly.”


Q :  “And she was under Soviet rule when she was ten years old.  So I know exactly what you’re talking about.”


A :  “Yeah, that’s right.  So it’s affecting all of life on Earth.  The sperm count of human males is half what it used to be.  Half!  And other creatures have sperm count decreases, only a lot of them isn’t half because they had a lot to begin with.  But, it’s decreasing every year, in all these species who have sperm.  In the Ocean. On Land.  Big Creatures.  Small Creatures.  Because of the exposure to toxic chemicals.  Especially Endocrine disruptive chemicals.  Which D.E.E.T. also is.  So all of this has been going on a long time now.  My proposal was buy up the Chemical Companies and shut ‘em down.  Especially Monsanto.  Which is responsible for Dioxin and a lot of the poisoning of the Earth, and genetically modified foods and so on.  So that’s my proposal, and of course, how do you make these things happen?  That’s the big question that has always been pondered by all people in all time.  Thousands of years people have been pondering:  ‘How do we get so we the people make the decisions that affect our lives?  How do we get there?’  That is the thing that the ‘Occupy Wall-Street / Occupy the World,’ is pondering and discussing, and debating and they will have some small victories.  Which are good.  Reforms are good.  Movements need victories.  But the big question: ‘How do we the people, start making the decisions and make happen the what needs to happen?’  I don’t have the answer to that.  All I know is to do what I do.  Which is to think and write, exhort people and agencies and so on, to do the right thing.”


Q :  “Is there a website people can look at for all this information that you write?”


A :  “Oh Well.  I have a website, but it hasn’t been updated in a long time, because I can’t afford to pay the webmaster.  (Laughs.)  I have to get it updated.  Your right.  But it has a bunch of stuff I’ve written for the local paper.  The website is www. Clean earth .net .”


Q :  “So I have one more question and that is…”


A :  “So can I go look up your website?”


Q :  “Ah…Hillary Lister, actually said that the Governor of  New Hampshire said he doesn’t want construction debris to be burned in his State because he doesn’t want to end up like Maine is.  Do you have any comment on that?”


A :  “Well that’s a better position on that particular issue than what we have.  I think our Governor that we have now, is really unknowledgeable in a lot environmental areas.  He’s from the City.  He’s governed in a city.  He’s a business man.  He does not know these things.  The business that he’s in is retail.  It was not the garbage business or anything that had to do particular that had to deal with toxic chemicals.  I just think he needs to be pounded on with information, until he realizes, that most of the people of Maine do not want our of State garbage.  Do not want to keep being poisoned by chemical companies within or without Maine.  This is really an important issue that I don’t think a lot of politicians and Democrats too, all of them understand.  They don’t understand it.  They don’t know the reach of these toxic chemicals and the damage.  It’s a long slow way to kill us all.  And that’s what’s happening.  We are being attacked daily, with deadly weapons, that people don’t know are deadly weapons.  And even if they do know, they don’t know how to stop it.  That’s the big question.  That’s why I am optimistic about the ‘Occupy’ movement, which hopefully will bring a lot of these issues to the politicians, and to the people.  Once we can, perhaps, get the main stream media to start covering ‘Occupy’ movements, honestly.  Which they are not yet.”           




Q :  "Well, ah, actually , I posted part one of this interview on November 2nd.  The Kennebec Journal's (Local Newspaper.) front page (November 14th.) actually talked to Will Neils and Paul McCarrier about the out of State trash issue and they are Main stream."
A :  "Good.  Yeah, well, you see I know and occasionally, we do make a break through.  We reach a particular reporter, who is sympathetic and it slips in there.  But, for the most part, the Main Stream media does not like to expose the inner workings of Corporations, because the Corporations are their 'life line.'  the Corporations buy the advertising and they don't want to kill their own  'Golden Goose.'  Very hard to get good information.  Activists, unpaid activists, unlike N.R.C.M., which gets in the paper all the time, and pretends they are doing something."
Q :  "And by N.R.C.M. of course for our readers. that's the Natural Resource Councils of Maine, correct?"


A :  ""Yes.  that's right.  They go after issues and pretend they are doing things.  What they are doing is going after the money, unfortunately.  Because, they hire good people.  but the, you know, what they do is see whatever good issue they think their Corporate funders will allow them to take on, and then, that's what they do.  that sounds kinda harsh, but it's true, and they know it.  they know it too.  So it's us unpaid activists out here who are not afraid to get, 'eyeball to eyeball,' with the Corporate lobbyists and lawyers and tell the truth.  And we do that with the public too.  And the unfortunate thing is that some of us get 'burned out.'  Eventually, because it's very hard to do this for years.  And in my case, and in some other people's cases, decades.  Decades of our lives spent trying to build a movement of regular people, sufficient to convince the 'powers that be,' to do the right thing.  My personal motto, which I have on the website somewhere too, is : 'Do right and risk consequences.'  That's how people need to live."


Q :  "O.K., and Nancy does your organization accept donations?  And if so, what's the address they can mail checks out to?"


A :  "Oh. O.K.! P.O. Box 1 Jonesboro, Maine, which is ME, 04648.  And very welcomed by the way.  Because the project which we are working on now, is to build raised bed gardens in people's years, whom live in unorganized territories far from town.  Many of whom are very poor, and don't get enough food, even if they go to the food bank.  The food banks here and everywhere and now constantly running our of food.  So people might make the trip 30, 40, 50 miles each way, and get very little.  So, they need to be growing their own food.  We also teach them how to grow food.  We are building 2 foot high raised beds, so that elderly and people who are not able in other ways, and children, everybody can work a 2 foot high raised bed garden.  Filled with decent soil, because it does not involved, 'stooped labor,' which is the hard part of gardening.  Which you have to bend down to the ground to plant, to weed, to harvest.  That's the hard part, and as our population ages, especially here in Maine, a lot of people who used to garden, older people, and they would love to have a garden like that.  But they can't garden the way they used to anymore.  Just rotor-tile and throw seeds on the ground.  So they're very grateful to have a nice 2 foot high, 4 foot wide, 8 foot long, to start.  Fill with decent soil, raised bed garden, in their own yard.  It's a kitchen garden.  They can grow a good part of your food.  You can't grow all your food , in that size, but with several of them, you can grow a good deal of it.  Or, people can just use wooden boxes, that have some holes in them, so that they drain.  I have 25 old Lobster crates.  Old wooden Lobster crates, not nets but crates, that were given to me by a worm dealer.  And I have filled them with decent soil, and I have all growing.  It's still warm enough here on the Ocean.  I'm only a couple of hundred feet, in town here, from the Ocean.  I still have flowers blooming.  I still have potatoes that I'm digging up.  And I have some greens.  Hearty salad greens, that are still growing out here.  And this is what people need to do to save money, get away from industrial food and the expensiveness of food is to grow their own with no pesticides and no chemical fertilizers what so ever.  Accept for what they have composted.  And all they need is compos.  Compost is food waste, kitchen waste and leaves and grass clippings.  Food and yard waste composted in an old garbage pail, or just pile it out in back and put that on the garden in the spring, after it's rotted down and there you go."


Q :  "O.K., and Nancy?"


A : "Yes."


Q :  "This is just to confirm if those donations for those checks are made out to the Clean Coalition / Clean Water.  Is that correct?"


A :  "Well actually at this point in time it's called, Clean Earth Farms.'"
Q :  "O.K. and that's what the donation should be made to is: 'Clean Earth Farms?'"
A :  "Yes.  Clean Earth Farms is fine.  P.O. Box 1 Jonesboro 04648.  That's wonderful.  I hope somebody does, because we are building these gardens and I now live on Social Security.  I got old enough, so I have no extra money, believe me, (laughs,) just living on Social Security.  I pay for everything myself, you know, when I take a trip here and there.  to be part of some hearing or demonstration, which is why I don't do everything anymore.  But, we need money for these gardens.  The lumber involved and the soil is not free.  And the seeds are not free, although I get some free.  If I beg.  You know, 'please send us some seeds,' and they send some.  And the people are very grateful.  Again in the Spring we will be hopefully if I can gather some money, we will be building more of these gardens in people's yards.  So they can grow their own food and have enough to eat.  Healthy food to eat."
Q :  "O.K. and ah, the title for this, because we are going to be printing this word for word; because it's internet so doesn't matter how big it is.  Do I say, 'Nancy Oden Clean Maine Coalition / Clean Water,' or do I say 'Nancy Oden...'" 
A :  "It's three words: 'Clean Earth Farms.'"

Q :  "O.K.. So you don't want me to mention Clean Maine Coalition or Clean Water?"
A :  "Well, it's kinda more into the Clean Earth Farms.'  We also hope to teach people practical skills.  So, they can be self-sufficient, because times are not going to get better.  The economy is not going to get better.  So it's all part of one now, but, we are operating under, the name and the checking account is in the name of: 'Clean Earth Farms.'  Which is by the way a Maine registered charity.  It's a non-profit charity.  It's not a 501-C-3 like these National ones that are under... It's just registered with the Maine Secretary of State, and we are a Maine registered charity.  And that's all we are.  We are not where we are under the jurisdiction of the Internal Revenue Service, (chuckles,) we don't want to do that.  So...I don't know if people can get a tax rebate on donating to us.  Probably not.  but, we just need money to buy the materials for the raised beds, and the soil and the seed.  And we have to pay for our gas getting around this huge, let's see, where a trip to somebody's house can easily be 150 - 200 miles, because these are people in the unorganized territories.  Which is sort of, 'The Outback.'  It's a necessity.  In the coming times, I'll tell you this, while I maintain a political  interest and I comment on news sites.  My favorite news site, the only one I usually go to, is,  I comment politically and I read and I keep up.  But all the climate scientists, and I organized a really good climate change symposium up there at the University in Machias, last Spring in April, because that is the over-arching concern.  The obstruction of...well, the green house gases that are heating up the Earth along with toxic chemicals that are ruining the Earth.
     So the scientists, the climate scientists, and all the people that write the books on 'Climate Change,' and 'Peak Oil,' and so on.  The one thing they urge us all to do, common as it sounds, is to grow our own food locally and organically.  If everybody in the World did this, A lot of the warming of the Earth would stop right now.  It wouldn't stop, because a lot of Carbon Dioxide and Methane gases have already been released and the effects of them won't end for decades, the ones that have already been released.  So we will continue to get warmer for some decades.  But if we did just that, that one thing, all around the World, that would cut back on Green House Gases to a point where we could begin to see the light of day again.  To begin to see, that we could actually save Civilization, and many of the species, they are going to die."
Q :  "Have you ever heard of, 'Chem-Trails'?  Because I was listening to Alex Jones today and they were actually saying the 'Chem-Trails,' is actually causing the Earth to heat up."
A :  "Well, you know, I have seen, I'm right here on the Coast, and a lot of planes fly up and down the Coast.  We see the planes that are leaving Newark and Boston.  We see the one's going to Europe way up in the sky.  their contrails fill the sky now.  And then there are other planes..."
Q :  "But that didn't happen 20 or 30 years ago...right?"


A :  "Well there weren't as many planes, but let me say this.  That I think some of what is released, by some of these planes, stays all day.  And I think it's the opposite of what you said.  I think, that it is blocking the Sun.  I think they already are doing some sort of engineering to try to keep the Earth form getting so warm.  Because here, we don't have as many sunny days as we used to.  Because there are clouds up there and I think those clouds are perhaps...this is my own personal theory, I don't have any science behind it, it's just my personal theory, I think that perhaps, they are creating clouds, with certain 'Chem-Trails,' to keep some of the very hot Sun, which was extraordinary this Summer for the Coast of Maine; to keep some of that from hitting the Earth.  Today for example..."
Q :  "Well I heard there was some Aluminum in some 'Con-Trails,' and that Monsanto is selling seeds that's not affected by Aluminum.  Coincidence?"
A :  "I don't know that.  But let me just say that this is November 14th, alright?  And today is in the Upper 50's and Low 60's  in Maine.  Now this is not the way things were say 25 or 30 years ago, where we will might already have a layer of snow on the ground.  I told you that my garden is still functioning.  Where are you located?"
Q :  "Augusta."
A :  "Oh.  O.K..  My Garden is still...some things have gone down, but I can still go our there and pick some Hearty Greens.  So I don't know about the 'Chem-Trails,' and I don't know about Aluminum.  Monsanto is working on all sorts of things.  You know there are many things that scientists can do, that should not be done. They should simply be left alone.  LIke trying to clone human beings, and clone other creatures.  Many things that they can figure out to do, but should not do.  And most of what Monsanto does, should not be done."
Q :  "O.K. Well Nancy, do you have any closing statements?"
A :  "Yes, I would like people to go to...well an easy way to get there, is to go to and click on the 'Occupy,' box.  Which is on the, right now today, it's on the right hand side of the web page.  Along with today's news.  About the 'Occupy,' sites around the Country, and the World.  And what they can do is, go to various news agencies.  I like Al Jazeera's for their coverage.  They do very good coverage, of the around the World, of the 'Occupy,' sites.  The American news agencies do lovely here in the Country, but also to go to the different websites.  A lot of them have live streaming.  I watched, this morning a replay of a live stream, of Boston.  Occupy Boston and there were speeches and discussions going on.  And it was...It was very exciting.  Well, the whole thing is.  So they should...look at what people are doing.  Listen to what people are doing.  And Norm Chomsky was speaking in Boston, (  Commercial Plug-You can purchase a number of Norm Chomsky and other political speeches on audio and/or video format form Roger Leisner's Radio Free Maine.- Message by Doug.)  and I listened to that.  And then get involved.  They don't have to build an 'Occupy,' where they are.  But, it would be good just to carry a sign down the street, in front of a Federal Office and say: 'Occupy Government,' or whatever.  But mostly the thing is, to get involved in important issues, and to go somewhere, where there's a pretty good size 'Occupy,' movement.  More than say ten people, so that they don't feel alone.  Then at least visit them in the day.  And then if they feel so inclined to get winterized and stay with them on. 
       Oh I have one word of advice for all the 'Occupiers,' that I read on a peripheral website, that I went to.  And that is, if you’re sleeping on the ground, if you’re in a tent, and all the things that go over the tent.  Blankets and sleeping bags and air mattresses and all of that.  The way you can stay warm from the cold creeping in, because it will creep into your tent, through your air mattress, through your wool blankets, through everything, unless you put... First of all, before you even put your tent down, put down corrugated cardboard, several layers.  It is amazing how, what a difference this will make and how warm you will be keeping.  So get some boxes, From 'Shop and Save,' or whatever, and break them down and put them under your tents.  And when you stand to speak put them under you feet, onto the cold ground.  Because this time of year, the cold will creep into you.  this helps a lot, but you also need wool.  You need to wear wool.  Wool is warm, even when it gets wet.  It is the only thing warm, even when it gets wet.  Most of us who lived in Northern Maine for many years, knows this, but, I'm a farmer.  So, I know this, I spend a lot of time outside, wool socks, wool long underwear, wool sweaters, wool jackets, wool hats, wool scarves, wool mittens, all the wool you can find.  That's the best thing, and the best way to stay warm.  Also this cardboard, hint : very important for people spending the Winter out of doors.  So just keep it up.  People educate yourselves.  go to all the 'Occupy,' websites you can find at  Listen to them.  If you have high speed internet you can watch all the video's, and understand that this is a big thing.  the Main Stream media makes fun of it.  Still, we're getting a little bit of decent reporting now and then.  but, mostly they're condescending and ridiculing.  But, understand this is the beginning of something, very, very important.  I was part of the 60's and 70's movement.  And I know a real movement when I see it.  And this is just the beginning.  People may go home and get warm in the Winter, and I don't blame them.  This will reform in the Spring and I believe it will be bigger.  And the bigger it gets, the more affective it's going to be.  And this is critical to remember.  The bigger the movement gets, the more effective it will be.  That's why we need everybody to go down to all the 'Occupy,' sites and spend time with them."


Q :  "O.K. Well Nancy I want to thank you very much for your time."


A : "Sure." 


Paul McCarrier Third Interview.


Paul  :  "Alright, so this is connected to the trash/gas pipeline they are trying to build from Old Town, Juniper Ridge Landfill to the University of Maine at Orono, and it's a Hydrogen Sulfide gas pipeline.  If you look up the movie, 'Weibos War,' it's about a family up in Alberta, where a man was accused of being an 'Eco-Terrorist,' because he was trying to stop extraction of this gas, around his farmland.  Because it was causing a massive amount of birth defects.  Starting to cause all his animals to abort.  I mean his family, like his children being born with half a face and stuff.  That's the same type of gas they are going to be collecting at the Juniper Ridge Landfill.  And the thing is also, the gas is heavier than the air.  So it will go and hang out.  Orono is in a river valley.  So there will be clouds of it just hanging over it.  It's just one of those things, either people don't know about it, or what."
Q :  "Nancy Oden was talking about that as well."
A :  "That's the thing.  That's a big issue.  the only way they are going to get any amount of gas out of the thing, is if they are going to expand the landfill.  So you see how all of the pieces are connecting?"
Q :  "So, they want to expand the landfill to allow out of State construction Debris and God knows what else, so they can build this thing and then cause possible further ecological damage and health problems?"
A :  "The whole issue is they won't be able to produce enough trash/gas without expanding the dump.  So they need to like triple the size of the dump to be able to have the space to pump up the gas through the pressure, and you know (laughs,) and pump it down to U.M.O. (University of Maine at Orono.)  That's the thing.  That's the State's flagship University and all sorts of University kids will be going there.  Living under that cloud of Cancerous gas." 


  • Special Alert about OCCUPY AUGUSTA, MAINE‏



 Third E-Mail from  

 Roger Leisner  - Radio Free Maine


Earlier today (November 25), the chief of Maine Capitol Police informed campers at Occupy Augusta in Capitol that they had to vacate their campsite and leave Capitol Park by Monday (November 28) evening.  

No complaints or violation of law were given as a reason to vacate OCCUPY AUGUSTA, where Maine citizens have been camping since October 15.  

A General Assembly was being called for this evening to discuss the eviction.  Attorneys are being contacted to assist with legal matters.

OCCUPY AUGUSTA campers invite citizens from all over Maine to come to the State Capitol in Augusta this weekend, particularly on Sunday, and demonstrate solidarity with OCCUPY AUGUSTA.

Photos from the Occupy Augusta have been posted on

Look for Roger Leisner-The Maine Paparazzi and go to this gallery.


Occupy Augusta at Capitol Park in Maine


34 galleries with 1569 photos


Copy provided by Adrienne Bennett, Governor of Maine's Press Secretary.
November 17, 2011
The Honorable Paul LePage
Governor of the State of Maine
Dear Governor LePage:
When I was forced to resign as Commissioner of the Department of Environmental Protection in April of the year, you appointed me as the Director of the State Planning Office.  Specifically, I was asked to oversee the reorganization of that Agency in accordance with Part FF of the current biennial budget that was passed by the Legislature and signed into law.  As you know, in accordance with Part FF, a Working Group was assembled with the charge to complete a plan for reorganization along with accompanying legislation to be presented to the Committee on Appropriations and Financial Affairs by December 1 of this year.  Yesterday, the Working Group met for its final meeting and approved the plan.
Because of the Working Group's affirmative action, my primary duties related to the State Planning Office have been completed.  Therefore, I am resigning as Director of the State Planning Office effective Monday, November 28, 2011.
Governor, I am deeply grateful to have had the opportunity to serve you in your Administration.  The challenges that this State and our Nation face are overwhelming.  It is clear to me that you are the right person at the right time to be guiding our State back to prosperity.
Darryl N. Brown
You may recall Darryl Brown's Interview from Part One.
To be continued...
Doug Papa is the owner of
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